Donna O'Gorman

An interview with Donna O'Gorman for the Lillian H. Smith Story Project.

O'Gorman, Donna

Wong, Christina

MP3

eng

August 5, 2015

Downtown (Toronto, Ont.)

Kensington-Chinatown (Toronto, Ont.)

University (Toronto, Ont.)

Wong, Christina

Wong, Christina

O'Gorman, Donna

Lillian H. Smith branch

00:00 Speaker 1: What we start about, tell me a little bit about yourself. And...

00:05 Speaker 2: Well, that all ties in to the story I guess.

00:07 S1: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

00:09 S2: Why don't we just start at the Boys and Girls House?

00:11 S1: Okay, yes.

00:12 S2: 56 years ago at the age of seven, my mother brought my brother and I to the library. I got my first library card, seven years old. I remember the librarian and her name was Ms. Cook. And I took out two books, we came back in the afternoon, and she said to me, "You should really keep them overnight."

[laughter]

00:34 S2: I was like, "But I finished them. I want more, I want more." That led... It's a short story, but that, being in that library and everything, led to me working at the old reference library all through high school.

00:48 S1: Oh, that was at the bookstore.

00:50 S2: Yeah, the bookstore. So, I worked there through high school. I was going to be a nurse. I thought it was me, but I couldn't handle it. So, I ended up in the library system.

00:57 S1: Right.

00:58 S2: And I worked in City Hall at the Municipal Reference Library for 19 years. And then we moved into Metro Hall with Municipal Reference Library and I was there for 15 years. So it was 34 years, through amalgamation and everything. So, it may have had an influence, that first little trip, to what I would do. But I was one of those kids with a book and the flashlight under the blanket.

01:17 S1: Oh yeah. [laughter] I know that feeling.

01:19 S2: Yes, and I didn't want anything but books for gifts. I remember the entire set of Bobbsey Twin books.

01:26 S1: Oh yes. I used to love reading those.

01:28 S2: The real old...

01:29 S1: Yes.

01:30 S2: I remember those. I just spent a lot of time in and out of that library.

01:36 S1: Right.

01:37 S2: But I do visually remember. I remember Ms. Cook really well. You're talking... What are you talking? 1959-60.

01:48 S1: Right. So you went there pretty much throughout your whole childhood.

01:51 S2: Mm-hmm. Because we lived on Sussex, and I still live in the same neighbourhood.

01:58 S1: Okay.

02:00 S2: So I use the Spadina Road Library, but I mean this is my area. This is where I grew up. Someone has to have photographs.

02:08 S1: What was it like transitioning from being a patron to actually working for the library? Did you feel some sort of...

02:19 S2: I felt privileged to work with what I was working with. Because the way it worked then when I was in high school as a page, is you had so many hours each night in different departments. The old reference library, so you had the theatre department. So you may have been actually filing all of the big boards from Stratford with the drawings with the costumes from the different plays.

02:47 S1: That must have been so nice.

02:48 S2: Just all that theatre. And then you may have spent an hour down in Languages and Literature, and you were on the circulation desk. There was a very big variety, so that you weren't always in the same departments every time you went in. So, you might have been in Languages and Literature. And of course the original Conan Doyle room was there, right? "I get to shelve in Conan Doyle tonight. Yahoo."

03:11 S1: That's so cool.

03:11 S2: But it was the type of thing where they really did schedule you so you were never bored. That was my big thing, is even all the years working in Municipal Reference and working in Urban Affairs, you were never bored because whatever happened in Council affected us.

03:28 S1: That must have been so interesting.

03:30 S2: It was. It was. I was never bored in 34 years. It was very interesting. It was fascinating dealing... A lot of the Toronto authors were in all the time. Mike Filey and Donald Jones who wrote for The Star. Of course, John Saul was one of the library's best friends. Jack Layton constantly in there because he was teaching at Ryerson as well as counsellor. And Olivia Chow was in. And you would have mayors that would come in and do their own research. David Miller. So you got to know them. Not only the Council, but all the employees, right? Because we were the library for them as well.

04:01 S1: Yeah. It's so neat how that one trip when you were seven just opened all this...

04:08 S2: I never thought about it until I read that article and then it all come back. And I thought, "Well yeah, there is a path there." I didn't realize that there was. I guess I just never realized it.

04:17 S1: Is there anything else that you remember from Boys and Girls House?

04:22 S2: I always remember smells.

04:24 S1: I do too.

04:25 S2: Do you? [chuckle]

04:25 S1: Yeah.

04:27 S2: It's the smell. I don't know if it was dust. I don't know it if was... I don't know what they were using at that time ink-wise, but there was something. I don't know, maybe it was the leather and the ink. That was one thing that fascinated me in high school, was the reference library had, in the stacks... And I don't remember his name, but I remember Ms. Cook's name.

[laughter]

04:52 S2: He was the restorer and he was Austrian or German.

04:56 S1: Okay.

04:57 S2: But his area in the stacks was like a cage and all his equipment was there, and I used to go in early sometimes and sit and watch him literally undo the spines, undo the threads. He never talked, but I asked him once, "Is it okay if I watch?" and he said, "Yes." But just to watch him stitching and doing everything...

05:18 S1: It must have been so tedious.

05:18 S2: Oh yeah. But see that was the art that he brought with him from Europe. That just absolutely fascinated me. But everything was the old way. You had the press. You would slowly fix the leather. And you're talking old books. You're talking 1800s.

05:34 S1: Yeah. You have to be so careful.

05:35 S2: That's a type of art that, when he was gone, I don't think anybody else had it. You could see all the leathers there that he had, the skins. It was interesting. It was quite interesting.

00:00 Speaker 1: What we start about, tell me a little bit about yourself. And...

00:05 Speaker 2: Well, that all ties in to the story I guess.

00:07 S1: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

00:09 S2: Why don't we just start at the Boys and Girls House?

00:11 S1: Okay, yes.

00:12 S2: 56 years ago at the age of seven, my mother brought my brother and I to the library. I got my first library card, seven years old. I remember the librarian and her name was Ms. Cook. And I took out two books, we came back in the afternoon, and she said to me, "You should really keep them overnight."

[laughter]

00:34 S2: I was like, "But I finished them. I want more, I want more." That led... It's a short story, but that, being in that library and everything, led to me working at the old reference library all through high school.

00:48 S1: Oh, that was at the bookstore.

00:50 S2: Yeah, the bookstore. So, I worked there through high school. I was going to be a nurse. I thought it was me, but I couldn't handle it. So, I ended up in the library system.

00:57 S1: Right.

00:58 S2: And I worked in City Hall at the Municipal Reference Library for 19 years. And then we moved into Metro Hall with Municipal Reference Library and I was there for 15 years. So it was 34 years, through amalgamation and everything. So, it may have had an influence, that first little trip, to what I would do. But I was one of those kids with a book and the flashlight under the blanket.

01:17 S1: Oh yeah. [laughter] I know that feeling.

01:19 S2: Yes, and I didn't want anything but books for gifts. I remember the entire set of Bobbsey Twin books.

01:26 S1: Oh yes. I used to love reading those.

01:28 S2: The real old...

01:29 S1: Yes.

01:30 S2: I remember those. I just spent a lot of time in and out of that library.

01:36 S1: Right.

01:37 S2: But I do visually remember. I remember Ms. Cook really well. You're talking... What are you talking? 1959-60.

01:48 S1: Right. So you went there pretty much throughout your whole childhood.

01:51 S2: Mm-hmm. Because we lived on Sussex, and I still live in the same neighbourhood.

01:58 S1: Okay.

02:00 S2: So I use the Spadina Road Library, but I mean this is my area. This is where I grew up. Someone has to have photographs.

02:08 S1: What was it like transitioning from being a patron to actually working for the library? Did you feel some sort of...

02:19 S2: I felt privileged to work with what I was working with. Because the way it worked then when I was in high school as a page, is you had so many hours each night in different departments. The old reference library, so you had the theatre department. So you may have been actually filing all of the big boards from Stratford with the drawings with the costumes from the different plays.

02:47 S1: That must have been so nice.

02:48 S2: Just all that theatre. And then you may have spent an hour down in Languages and Literature, and you were on the circulation desk. There was a very big variety, so that you weren't always in the same departments every time you went in. So, you might have been in Languages and Literature. And of course the original Conan Doyle room was there, right? "I get to shelve in Conan Doyle tonight. Yahoo."

03:11 S1: That's so cool.

03:11 S2: But it was the type of thing where they really did schedule you so you were never bored. That was my big thing, is even all the years working in Municipal Reference and working in Urban Affairs, you were never bored because whatever happened in Council affected us.

03:28 S1: That must have been so interesting.

03:30 S2: It was. It was. I was never bored in 34 years. It was very interesting. It was fascinating dealing... A lot of the Toronto authors were in all the time. Mike Filey and Donald Jones who wrote for The Star. Of course, John Saul was one of the library's best friends. Jack Layton constantly in there because he was teaching at Ryerson as well as counsellor. And Olivia Chow was in. And you would have mayors that would come in and do their own research. David Miller. So you got to know them. Not only the Council, but all the employees, right? Because we were the library for them as well.

04:01 S1: Yeah. It's so neat how that one trip when you were seven just opened all this...

04:08 S2: I never thought about it until I read that article and then it all come back. And I thought, "Well yeah, there is a path there." I didn't realize that there was. I guess I just never realized it.

04:17 S1: Is there anything else that you remember from Boys and Girls House?

04:22 S2: I always remember smells.

04:24 S1: I do too.

04:25 S2: Do you? [chuckle]

04:25 S1: Yeah.

04:27 S2: It's the smell. I don't know if it was dust. I don't know it if was... I don't know what they were using at that time ink-wise, but there was something. I don't know, maybe it was the leather and the ink. That was one thing that fascinated me in high school, was the reference library had, in the stacks... And I don't remember his name, but I remember Ms. Cook's name.

[laughter]

04:52 S2: He was the restorer and he was Austrian or German.

04:56 S1: Okay.

04:57 S2: But his area in the stacks was like a cage and all his equipment was there, and I used to go in early sometimes and sit and watch him literally undo the spines, undo the threads. He never talked, but I asked him once, "Is it okay if I watch?" and he said, "Yes." But just to watch him stitching and doing everything...

05:18 S1: It must have been so tedious.

05:18 S2: Oh yeah. But see that was the art that he brought with him from Europe. That just absolutely fascinated me. But everything was the old way. You had the press. You would slowly fix the leather. And you're talking old books. You're talking 1800s.

05:34 S1: Yeah. You have to be so careful.

05:35 S2: That's a type of art that, when he was gone, I don't think anybody else had it. You could see all the leathers there that he had, the skins. It was interesting. It was quite interesting.