Arlene Chan

Description

An interview with author Arlene Chan for the Lillian H. Smith Story Project.

Creator

Chan, Arlene

Contributor

Wong, Christina

Format

MP3

Date Created

September 2, 2015

Spatial Coverage

Downtown (Toronto, Ont.)
Kensington-Chinatown (Toronto, Ont.)

Rights Holder

Wong, Christina

Interviewer

Wong, Christina

Interviewee

Chan, Arlene

Location

Lillian H. Smith Branch

Transcription

00:00 Speaker 1: So my name is Arlene Chan, and I actually used to live in this area here. So I grew up at Beverly and Dundas Street, and I went to Ogden School which is just down the street, and then went to Ryerson Public School. And my interest in this area... Well, Lillian Smith Library, and then also this area goes way, way back. I mean to start off with career wise, I went to University of Toronto and I went to library school. And shortly after I graduated, I worked one year somewhere else, but then I ended up at the Toronto Public Library, and I worked for 30 years for the library system. And I had a very, very rewarding, and I'm very grateful for the career that I had chosen to work for the library system. And I went through... Saw many, many changes happening, and I did do work for quite a number of years at the Lillian Smith Library, I was at the time the branch head of the travelling branch, which was the library's outreach services for home bound and for institutionalized.

01:04 Speaker 2: Is that like the Bookmobile, I guess?

01:06 S1: Including the Bookmobile, and the hospital services, the shut-in service. So that was the service that I looked after in the former Toronto Public Library, and when the whole library system amalgamated I became manager of City-Wide Services, which included those services. But every Friday for several years, and again this is how long I've worked for the library, I started working at the library when we still had a card catalogue. If you were looking for a magazine or a newspaper article you would sit at this index table full of all these volumes and volumes of subject guides, you had to look things up, I mean things were so, so different back then, and... But I was here at the very start of when the library introduced computers. And so every Friday I came here to work with the information services advisory team, they were a group of about half a dozen of us that were drawn from across the library system. And our role was to develop training programs to teach staff, and also the public, on how to use a computer, and more importantly how to use the databases. So that's how long ago I worked for the library, 'cause now it's just very common to walk in the library use the computers, but back then you would have to come to certain libraries like the Lillian Smith Library 'cause they had a computer lab.

02:28 S1: So my connection with Lillian Smith, I have very, very fond connections, and also linking into what I also do as a... When I retired from the library eight year ago now, I was able to pursue my passion for research, for writing, and so I've published seven books now on the topic of the Chinese history and culture in Canada in Toronto. And I've had several book launches at Lillian Smith Library, so I have a very close working relationship, and very good memories of Lillian Smith. So my... Just to go back to my writing, my very first book that I wrote was called the "Spirit of the Dragon: The Story of Jean Lumb", and Jean Lumb is my mom. And she was the first Chinese Canadian to receive the Order of Canada for her volunteerism and helping the Chinese community, saving Chinatown, not only in Toronto but across Canada. And also helping to change Canada's immigration laws, because there's a long, not a very happy history of the Chinese in Canada. And so up until 1967 there were many anti-Chinese laws that prohibited or discouraged Chinese from coming into Canada. And so my mother was very active in the '50s and in the '60s to help change those immigration laws, to ease what we call family reunification because...

04:06 S1: Because of these Head Tax and the Exclusion Act, that really had isolated the Chinese in Canada and it was mostly a male society. So families were separated, the men were in Canada and their families, their wives, their children were left behind in China or in Hong Kong. So this family reunification was a huge issue, and my mother was very involved with that. So my mother, because of all her work was recognized by the... With the Order of Canada, and there had been a lot written about my mother in terms of newspaper articles, and magazine articles, and chapters in books, but a publisher, a very small independent publisher wanted to have a children's book written. Which was a great idea, because I remember when I was growing up... I've always been an avid reader, I was one of those kids that would... The light's out, but I would be under my blanket with a pillow reading until my eyes were bulging out of my head. So but I remember never being able to go to the library and finding stories about Chinese people who had accomplished something, so I thought it was such an important message to get out to young people about here is a Chinese Canadian women who really accomplished a lot, really came from nothing to become someone who accomplished something.

05:23 S1: And so that's how I accidentally fell into writing. Somebody else was supposed to do this biography of my mother, and it wasn't going as planned. And so the publisher said to my mother, she said, "Mrs. Lumb, I know your... One of your daughters... " 'Cause there's six in our family. And he said, "One of your daughters is a librarian, do you think she might be interested in taking on this project, take over the writing?" And my mother said, "Oh no, no, no, no. Arlene is so busy, she's working full-time at the library, she has two kids that are young and her husband is working so much that he's not home. So she's so busy." She won't have time. So she told me, and I went, "Mom." [laughter] So anyhow what happened was I talked to the publisher and I said, "Why don't I write one chapter, and then if you like it, great. If you don't like it, I totally understand." You have to understand too that 'cause I love reading, I've always loved researching, and I used to write when I was younger, and I'm an English major, it kind of I had an interest, yeah it all came together. So I wrote the chapter and that's how I wrote my first book, and then after that, it just sort of one thing led to another.

06:35 S2: Just spiralled.

06:36 S1: Yeah, yeah. So I'm very, very lucky. My latest book that I published was about the Chinese in Toronto. Well actually, my latest book is about the Chinese head tax and Exclusion Act, but before that, I've written two books on the history of the Chinese in Toronto. And I always get asked, "Well how long did it take you to write this book on the Chinese in Toronto?" And I said, "Well I've always collected material, magazine articles, newspaper articles, since I was in high school, and I just have cabinets full of all these clippings."

07:11 S2: I do the same thing.

[laughter]

07:13 S1: You do the same thing? Yeah, so you know what I'm talking about. But the real time it took me to write the book was a couple of years. But, what was so amazing to me, by then my mother had passed away, 'cause she passed away in 2002, and I wish... I have one regret that I wasn't working on this project when she was still alive, because my mom up until the time she passed away, sharp as a tack, and memory that you would not like just... I was so envious of her memory, 'cause she was like a walking encyclopedia of the history of the people in, not only in Toronto, but in Ontario. You'd say, "Oh yeah, I was in Fort Erie." "Oh yeah, there's a Chinese restaurant there called so and so," or, "that was the Wong family." So, she knew everybody.

08:00 S1: And so for me, when I was doing my research for the history of the Chinese in Toronto, and of course, that would have included the original Chinatown, which was where New City Hall is, and then it moved to where Chinatown is, the major one is at Spadina and Dundas, just in the Lillian Smith neighbourhood, and then there's one out in Gerrard, Broadview. So just doing that research, I had so many "aha" moments, because as I mentioned, I grew up in Chinatown, and because my mother, and my father also was very active in the Chinese community, with the family association, and with the political organizations at the time. And so many, many things that I had to attend, to go with my parents to Chinese banquets, and we went to the casino and the Victory to watch the Chinese offering music shows.

08:51 S1: So all these things, as I was doing my research, I knew all these important people who had played such a big role in the development of the Chinese community here, and I was having all these moments, "Oh, that's Uncle Harry, I didn't realize that he was the President of this." And, "Oh, that's my Aunty May," all these people. So it was like history coming alive, and for me, remembering and saying, "Oh, that's what they were doing, and that's why they were so important in the community." Because when I was... I mean growing up, you're just a kid and everybody looks like they're six feet tall when they're really probably shorter than me, but it was just looking up to all these people, but not really... Knowing they were important, but not knowing why they were important. So for me, learning the history and the background, and the hardships that they went through, but at the same time, that they could leave such an impact on our community. And I'm talking about my mother and her colleagues, and all the other people who are so active in the community.

09:53 S2: And you know what? I feel like that when I talk to the elders at my family association, and it's just... You don't realize how much they worked or faced until you talk to them. And sometimes they don't wanna talk about it and it's just the matter of prying it, and it's just... You just have this immense appreciation, I can't describe it, I think you know what I mean but it's just.

10:19 S1: And it's so important to get these stories, because we're talking about the older generation, and we call it [10:25] ____, the old-timers, and their stories, most of them are not recorded anywhere. And as you said, when you talk to old-timers, they really don't want to talk about the past because it's not a happy past, it's very painful, because they did do... They had to suffer a lot. But if you talk to them for a while, and especially if you can speak Chinese, and in my case, it's speaking not-great Chinese, because I'm third generation on my mother's side, and even though we had to speak Chinese up until we went into grade school, after, we're six kids in the family and I'm number four, by the time it came to me, my parents are kind of giving up on this language rule. But because my parents had a restaurant in Chinatown, we were speaking more regularly than others might have spoken.

11:15 S1: But when you start talking to the old-timers and hear their stories, and you're able to draw them out, they're amazing stories and they have to be captured because they're in their 80s, their number is diminishing. Last week I went to the visitation for Mr. Harry Tang, who was very active in the community, he was the manager of the Nanking restaurant, which was one of the big four restaurants in the old Chinatown, and he was a very active member of the community. But it's people like him who, when they pass away, there's hours and hours of stories that he had to tell, and I was lucky that I did speak to him about some of his stories. But, at the Wong's association you have Chuck... You have two Chuck Wongs there, and they have amazing stories. Yeah.

12:05 S2: You could just spend hours and it's just... Because it's stuff that you can't find in books...

12:09 S1: Yup, exactly.

12:09 S2: Or anywhere.

12:11 S1: Yeah, once you capture it then it's either taped or it's in writing and then it's forever, right? But if somebody doesn't take that time, it's gone, it just disappears. And I just... I'm thinking of all the people, the old timers who are passing away and the family are going through their things and they... Oh, they don't know what to do and it's just probably ending up in the garbage. It just breaks my heart. Like photographs, and Head Tax Certificates, and immigration papers, these are so important to save.

12:45 S2: Well, so with my... My dad had passed away, and that's also one of my regrets is to not... He came in the '50s, so he's seen quite a bit of Toronto, and moving from Walton to a different area of the city. When he passed I was going through his things, this is the one reason why I refuse to throw things out, I might become a pack rat. [chuckle] It's just all... It's I have Toronto history here, and it's just like the photo on Walton Street, it's the family there and I can't throw that. Or just... I even have a receipt from Simpson's that I don't wanna throw out. So it's little things like that, that I... It's unbelievable what we have.

13:34 S1: Yeah, for sure. And with this digital age, if things get scanned and then they're posted so that everybody can see them, I think this is so powerful too. So, it's not like you have to go somewhere and bury yourself in archives, it's now you can search on the computer and Toronto Archives, as I was mentioning earlier, is an incredible resource for images for documents. And again, it's because of the scanning, you don't have to go to Toronto Archives to do the research, you can do so much 24/7. Ever since I've retired from the Toronto Public Library I'm one of the biggest users, I'm constantly... I mean the information that you can get on the databases 24/7 is newspapers, magazines, university thesis, it's incredible.

14:25 S2: You can probably dig yourself in a worm hole or something.

[chuckle]

14:28 S1: Oh. 'Cause I remember researching and it's honestly, you'd sit at the library and there were these tables full of all these huge thick volumes, and you'd have to search year by year, and try to figure out what the subject headings were to catch things. And then you'd write everything out by hand, "Okay, it was the Toronto Star, 1878." And then you'd have to go and try and find the newspaper or the magazine.

14:49 S2: Right, or the microfiche.

14:51 S1: And on microfiche, microfilm, and you'd get car sick looking through all these reel. I mean, it's just things have changed so much and research is so much easier. So, it's so much fun. One of the huge "aha" moments I had as I was researching about Elvis Stojko, and I don't know if you remember, but he's a World Champion Canadian figure skater and he used the theme from the Bruce Lee bio film.

15:18 S2: Yes. Yes, I remember.

15:20 S1: And he was so into martial arts that that's why he had his theme music, and then he had so many martial arts moves in his program. Well, he studied under the same martial arts master that I did on Hagerman Street in the Old Chinatown.

15:37 S2: Oh wow. What are the chances?

15:38 S1: And I just went... Yeah. It was the Jing Mo Kung Fu Club under Master Lore. And I just sort of... I was in my little office and I just ran out to my husband and I said, "You know? Guess what? Jimmy Lore was my teacher and he was also Elvis Stojko's teacher." And my husband he says, "Oh, that's very nice dear."

[chuckle]

15:58 S2: I think that's cool. That's a nice little six degrees there.

16:02 S1: I know. It's just like these are the... I get all excited about this, 'cause that's just the beauty and the joy of doing research, and digging and then you find these gems that... So as you said there, less than six degrees of separation when you...

16:20 S2: It's pretty crazy.

[chuckle]

16:21 S1: Yeah. Yes it is. Yeah, so that... I guess that's it about my writing.

16:27 S2: Okay. I remember you saying your parents owned a restaurant, I guess it's not there anymore? [16:33] ____.

16:33 S1: Well, actually it is.

16:35 S2: Oh it's...

16:36 S1: So my parents owned a restaurant called the Kwong Chow Restaurant and when the War... Second World War finished in 1945, and I mentioned the Chinese Immigration Act or Chinese Exclusion Act where Chinese were not allowed to come into Canada, and that act was repealed in 1947. And at the time, Chinatown was a place that you didn't go into unless you were Chinese. So there were all these stories about you go there and bad things will happen to you, and it's a place of sin and evil and things, so there are all these stories that were flying around that, again, unless you were Chinese, you didn't go there. So after the war, after the repeal of the Chinese Immigration Act, and because of the Chinese Canadians' involvement in World War II, in terms of volunteering to serve in the armed forces, in terms of volunteering in the Red Cross and helping to raise funds and things like that, and also 'cause China was an ally of Canada, public perception started turning around in how they perceived Chinese in Canada, in Toronto. And up until then the restaurants and businesses in Chinatown were geared for serving mostly Chinese clientele, but after the war what we saw were the opening of what we call "The Big Four" Chinese Restaurants. The first one was Nanking Restaurant, which was on Hagerman and Elizabeth Street, directly north of where new City Hall is now. The second one to open, and these opened in the late '40s, 1940s... The second one was Lichee Garden.

18:12 S1: And then my... And Sai Woo Restaurant opened. So Lichee Garden was on Elizabeth, just south of Dundas. Then Sai Woo Restaurant opened on Dundas Street just west of Bay Street. And then my parents had their restaurant that opened in 1959. So from the late '40s until 1959, these big four opened. And what was so different about these Big Four is that they were larger restaurants, larger than the old restaurants that had maybe a dozen tables. All the menus were written in hand... In Chinese. And on the wall they had to hung pieces of paper.

18:46 S1: And these big four white tablecloths really catered to non-Chinese people, and they played such a huge role in attracting people who are not Chinese to come into Chinatown. Then Chinatown became a tourist attraction. There was a huge turning in perception on how Chinatown was regarded by the mainstream community. And so my parents... And I think it's so important because my parents owned and operated the Kwong Chow Restaurant from 1959 until 1982. And it was a place where... Of those big four restaurants, those were all the restaurants that politicians at City Hall, from the Ontario government, went there. The movers and shakers of the city of Toronto went to those big four. And again, that was so important in helping with the integration of Chinese into, into...

19:41 S2: And even I guess the image, or something.

19:43 S1: Yes. Exactly, exactly. So I think these big four played a big, big role in changing public perception, making Chinatown a tourist attraction. And also, even though they were serving what we call "Chinese-Canadian food"...

[chuckle]

20:00 S1: And you have to understand too that if it weren't for the Chinese-Canadian food, then it would not have made those restaurants as attractive and as appealing, and so Chinese food was adapted to suit Western palate. And then later on when immigration laws were eased from 1967 onwards and you started seeing immigrants coming from Hong Kong, and then they were bringing... We're used to the Hong Kong-style cooking and more authentic food, then you started seeing a change in moving away from Chinese Canadian food to more authentic, traditional dishes. But the role of those big four is really, really significant. And so my parents had their restaurant. And that's where my mother was able to invite people to come for dinner, and then she met... The networking that went on at these restaurants, at my parents' restaurant and the other three, was very, very important. And so my mother, with her role in helping to save Chinatown and changing immigration laws. Like Prime Minister John Diefenbaker went to the Kwong Chow Restaurant, and so many important politicians that made a huge impact on changing immigration laws and helping the Chinese settle more in Toronto, yeah in Canada. So... Yeah so I and the six kids in our family, we all worked at my... At the restaurant during the summer, on the weekends, in the evenings, and so played a very, very big role in my youth as well.

21:40 S2: Great. And I guess it shaped you in some way.

21:43 S1: In many, many ways it shaped me because we were in constant contact with the... Working in the restaurant, we had to speak Chinese. It wasn't the best Chinese but... Going in and out of the kitchen, and working with all the waiters, and yeah. And I remember, I used to answer the phone for the takeout orders 'cause we were... It was Sai Woo Restaurant, and Kwong Chow that were the first to have the Dim sum in Toronto. And so we used to get a lot of phone orders for takeout, and so there would be Chinese people calling in for their orders. And then there would be a lot of takeout of our Chinese Canadian food, and inevitably I'd always get this comment: "You speak such good English." And I would have to hold myself back. People don't say that so much now, but in the late '50s and '60s: "Oh, you speak such good English." And I had to really hold myself back and say, "You speak really good English too."

[laughter]

22:47 S1: But then... And again it's the whole perception of what Chinese people were, that they would all be speaking in Pidgin English or have broken English. So again, now that helped to change people's... It's all these little steps that helped to... 'Cause change... You can get rid of discriminatory laws, and that's in place. We have human rights, we have civil rights, and all the... The Exclusion Act is finished with, and all the... Those kinds of discriminatory laws were changed. But the hardest thing to change is public perception.

23:21 S2: Yes.

23:22 S1: Discrimination, that's what people's attitudes are, those are the hardest things to change. So all these little baby steps of someone seeing somebody who has an Asian face but speaking perfect English, that... Yeah.

23:36 S2: Yeah, still... Yeah... Yeah. You do a lot of walking tours, so...

23:41 S1: Yes. Yeah, I started with Heritage Toronto because they do about 100 tours every summer going through the city, and they started up the tours in Chinatown. The one that's right in Lillian Smith's backyard, at Spadina and Dundas, they started that one up... I think it's three years ago... I kind of lose track of time. So they asked me to lead them and so I did them and they were very, very successful so I added this year... So I've been doing what I call Chinatown West Tours since then and then added this year the tour of the original Chinatown Elizabeth and Dundas and I had a blast researching for those tours as well.

24:24 S2: Mm-hmm I can imagine.

Citation

Chan, Arlene, “Arlene Chan,” TPL Virtual Exhibits, accessed March 28, 2024, http://omeka.tplcs.ca/virtual-exhibits/items/show/1796.